Thanks so much for this workshop, Rebecca! I think my writing goal is just to have ONE single book published traditionally, so I can hold it in my hands or see it on a shelf somewhere. 🙂
Hi Amy! Yes, as I mentioned in the presentation, I think you can definitely achieve a goal of being traditionally published and holding your book in your hands through work-for-hire writing. Good luck!
Hi, Ana! Good for you for being there to help kids! I think you can definitely help kids dealing with issues in their lives by writing for the work-for-hire markets. I’m thinking specifically about the nonfiction books in my presentation but also by weaving characters dealing with those issues into fiction stories. Good luck!
Laurie
1 year ago
Multiple goals: To write the book (s) of my heart, but also to get published in non-fiction and think WFH might be a good avenue. Former journalist, so have lots of non-writing clips, of course, but am newer to children’s writing. Thanks for doing this, Rebecca!
With a background in journalism, I think you’d have a great work-for-hire resume. And yes, I’m still working to get the book(s) of my heart out into the world too. It’s a journey!
janewrites
1 year ago
The book of my heart in my hands and on a bookstore shelf. But maybe also quit my day job, someday?
Hey, Jane, sorry, I’m one of those people who doesn’t love to talk about money online but I think it’s fair to say you won’t get rich doing work-for-hire. It also varies from project to project. All the best, Rebecca
Amy
1 year ago
I write YA, but I have some medical expertise, so maybe that could be interesting to do in a non-fiction work-for-hire project.
Hi, Amy! I’m glad I’m going through these comments because I think I missed this one during the presentation. I’d think medical expertise would be great for non-fiction work-for-hire projects. You’d be great for something new in the vein of the Concussion book that I showed in the presentation. Good luck! Rebecca
Ana
1 year ago
I would love to write hi lo, what is the word count?
Great question, Ana! The MG mysteries I wrote were 20,000 words. I think that there is also hi-lo in the YA market which would probably have a higher word count but not nearly as high as a trade market YA book. All the best, Rebecca
awilson2002
1 year ago
Do you have to write a lot of these books to make a decent living?
I’d suggest checking out the horn book article I listed in the presentation for a second point of view on this, but basically, yes. Or that you could pursue this as well as other work. I do freelance writing, write my own stories and do work-for-hire, so it’s a lot of juggling.
If it’s a PB, do we submit the whole manuscript since it’s less than 500 words? I would also love to write chapter books. Do you have resources for us to research more publishers, etc?
Hey again, Ana! When I submitted a PB for that first work-for-hire pitch, they did ask for the full text. But check out the submission guidelines for each publisher or packager.
Rebecca
janewrites
1 year ago
One more question, sorry! Are there opportunities to write historical biographies of famous people? Have you ever written one of those? Thanks again.
Jane, No problem! Questions are great! I think historical biographies of famous people would be the type of thing that would work in the work-for-hire market. They’d be great for libraries and schools. Kris Asselin, who’s also a WriteOnCon presenter, has written a number of books for both the trade and work-for-hire market. I believe her non-fiction books are all wfh and you can see a couple are biographies: https://www.kristineasselin.com/my-non-fiction.html
All the best,
Rebecca
Hi, Elza!
I don’t think WFH publishers are worried about the author marketing the book. I haven’t been asked to market my mysteries. I think since you’re paid up front and not royalties, that’s not really in the expectations.
All the best,
Rebecca
Laurie
1 year ago
Typically, how long long does it take to get feedback once you put you contact publishers as a new writer? Is a good idea to contact several at once? Thanks!
I heard back on my submission to North Star/Jolly Fish relatively quickly, within a couple months. I’ve submitted packages to other work-for-hire publishers and not heard back at all. I think it depends on whether there’s a good fit with your writing/experience and the books they’re trying to create. As with everything, there’s a bit of talent and a bit of luck/being in the right place at the right time involved.
All the best,
Rebecca
Sandra
1 year ago
What is a typical timeframe they may give you to finish a book?
The timeframes are set up front in the contract for the book. I had 2 deadlines with each book, one to provide the first chapter and outline (and bibliography for the nonfiction book), and one for completing the manuscript and turning it in. The MG mysteries were 2-3 months and the nonfiction teen book was 6-8 weeks. This did not include revision.
I don’t know. I hope not! I didn’t feel a lot of pressure to accept the assignments. I spent a couple days thinking about the nonfiction one because I knew it would slow down my writing on my own WIP.
I guess my thought is this, that it might be easy to slip from someone’s mind if you hadn’t written for them in a while. Also, editors are people too and it can be hard to keep track of the multiple projects they’re juggling and all the potential authors.
For instance, when I wrote the first mystery, I found out the publisher was looking for writers from diverse backgrounds and suggested a couple of my critique partners. One decided to apply and when the publisher decided to do a second set of 4 books in the What Happened? series, I asked if they were going to include her. They hadn’t thought of her because she’d categorized herself/they’d categorized her as action or mystery, not humor and then they’d pulled their humor list of authors to ask people to pitch. (??) I knew she could write funny and mentioned that and she did end up being selected to write one of the books. I don’t think they were trying to be mean or exclude anyone, I think they’re just busy and things can get overlooked.
But, I don’t know for sure. Even after 3 books I think of myself as pretty new to this!
I hope that helps!
Best of luck with your writing!
Rebecca
Becka
1 year ago
I am so glad to see this topic covered this year! I’ve been looking for information on how to get into this. I’d found some information about freelancing for websites and such, but that’s not what I wanted to do. I want to write books.
Thanks so much for this! It was extremely helpful.
Oh, I’m glad this was helpful, Becka! Yes, it’s a topic that’s not talked about a ton. I hope the pages on further resources and on publishers and packagers gives you some direction on where to go for more info.
Sorry I’m late getting back to you.
Rebecca
Woodwardia
1 year ago
I really hope that you will find a way that is comfortable for you to address the payment issue. I don’t think listeners are asking specifically how much you get paid, but just in general what might a person get paid for doing various types of books or assignments. And if you are not able or willing to answer that question, could you please point us in the direction of a resource that could answer that question? Women in particular are often not paid fairly because of systemic inequalities and sometimes their own reluctance to address the topic of money. I hope that we can be open enough as writers to equip women With information about the value of their work to make sure they are not being taken advantage of in any workplace, including publishing.
Woodwardia
1 year ago
And thank you for your presentation, which overall was very helpful. I also appreciate you allowing pauses for thought — an excellent pedagogical practice! All the best to you in your writing journey.
Yes, this is a tough topic. Partly because it’s about money, which is a touchy issue, partly because it depends a lot on the piece and the publisher, and partly because writing, as a whole doesn’t pay well. Even traditionally published authors don’t make a ton of money unless they have a big following, and work-for-hire pays less than that. I suggested the work-for-hire diva article because it gives people a sense of the money:
” As a friend of mine who has done work for hire for other publishers said, if you’re efficient and “get in a groove,” you can make a living, or something close to it, with work-for-hire projects…”
You’re not going to get rich on work-for-hire and you need to be pretty disciplined with your research, writing and editing time to make it worthwhile on a $/hour basis.
I think that the reason to do it is to get paid for writing, to get credits for your bio and to get the experience working for an editor. With that said, I made more on a $ per word basis on the nonfiction project I wrote than on the fiction books. If you wanted to do school visits, you might be able to augment the income from writing a work-for-hire book.
I make more money and get more consistent work from freelance writing for businesses, but I only got there through focusing on topics that I have a distinctive knowledge about/background in. Lots of businesses are looking for website and marketing content but if they have the choice, they won’t pay a lot. You need a niche where you’re not competing with tons of people.
Work for hire pay rates vary a great deal. Packagers will usually not pay as well as working with a publisher directly (packagers are middle men and take a cut), but publishers also budget these tightly. Think about it like submitting a poem to a magazine. Some children’s mags pay as little as $5 (or not at all) while others may pay hundreds. (For wfh, I’ve heard of $200-$1000 per book for lower level readers.)This depends on how well known and funded the magazine is. Also, some companies go through agents to find their work for hire authors. Those authors are likely to earn more than those of us who aren’t agented. There are threads on this on the SCBWI Blueboard for anyone who wants more info.
I’ve now done over 15 books with my name on them, and I edit as a freelancer also. (My goal is to sell one of my own book projects.) But at least I know someone thinks I can write. I like work for hire because I get practice meeting deadlines and working with editors and a a little extra cash. I also only take topics I’d like to learn more about. This means I’m interested in the research. I’d love to do more fiction, so I’m listening to the workshop to see if I get ideas to further my career.
Now that I’ve finished the workshop, adding some notes: Evelyn Christensen is no longer keeping all sections of her website up to date, so be sure to double check each publisher’s info.
On marketing: I had to ask for permission to list the books on my website because I own no rights to them even though my name is on them. I’ve done no other marketing for them. And these contracts often involve nondisclosure agreements, which means you can’t discuss them with anyone. I asked permission to share with my critique group while the manuscripts were in progress.
On editorial: I’ve had contracts that state the work will be edited without my approval but I can not be held liable for errors inserted during this process. This allows the publisher/packager to move more quickly.
On experience: list your day job. Do you work with kids? Are you a professional with expertise on non-fiction subjects? Do you write as part of your living?
And on payments: of course, a YA will pay more because it’s more work than a first grade reader.
Rebecca, I hear you on balancing your personal projects with the paid work. It’s a business decision. And I had no idea SCBWI’s The Book listed WFH publishers. I’ll be looking at those. Thanks for the article resources also.
Hey Debbie! Thanks for adding your knowledge here! This subject is so seldom talked about.
THE BOOK actually lists a bunch of traditionally publishers who use work-for-hire writers for some of their projects – so don’t look for a section, read down in the details about what they publish and submission guidelines.
Thanks so much for this workshop, Rebecca! I think my writing goal is just to have ONE single book published traditionally, so I can hold it in my hands or see it on a shelf somewhere. 🙂
Hi Amy! Yes, as I mentioned in the presentation, I think you can definitely achieve a goal of being traditionally published and holding your book in your hands through work-for-hire writing. Good luck!
I will love to help kids with issues.
Hi, Ana! Good for you for being there to help kids! I think you can definitely help kids dealing with issues in their lives by writing for the work-for-hire markets. I’m thinking specifically about the nonfiction books in my presentation but also by weaving characters dealing with those issues into fiction stories. Good luck!
Multiple goals: To write the book (s) of my heart, but also to get published in non-fiction and think WFH might be a good avenue. Former journalist, so have lots of non-writing clips, of course, but am newer to children’s writing. Thanks for doing this, Rebecca!
With a background in journalism, I think you’d have a great work-for-hire resume. And yes, I’m still working to get the book(s) of my heart out into the world too. It’s a journey!
The book of my heart in my hands and on a bookstore shelf. But maybe also quit my day job, someday?
Awesome goals Jane! Work-for-hire can’t take you directly there, though it could still be a step on your way…or not! All the best, Rebecca
My goal is to have a career in writing. I’d love for that to be my “day job”!
Hey, Eliza! I hope you achieve that goal of a career in writing! All the best, Rebecca
Can I ask how much one gets paid for writing one of these books?
Hey, Jane, sorry, I’m one of those people who doesn’t love to talk about money online but I think it’s fair to say you won’t get rich doing work-for-hire. It also varies from project to project. All the best, Rebecca
I write YA, but I have some medical expertise, so maybe that could be interesting to do in a non-fiction work-for-hire project.
Hi, Amy! I’m glad I’m going through these comments because I think I missed this one during the presentation. I’d think medical expertise would be great for non-fiction work-for-hire projects. You’d be great for something new in the vein of the Concussion book that I showed in the presentation. Good luck! Rebecca
I would love to write hi lo, what is the word count?
Great question, Ana! The MG mysteries I wrote were 20,000 words. I think that there is also hi-lo in the YA market which would probably have a higher word count but not nearly as high as a trade market YA book. All the best, Rebecca
Do you have to write a lot of these books to make a decent living?
I’d suggest checking out the horn book article I listed in the presentation for a second point of view on this, but basically, yes. Or that you could pursue this as well as other work. I do freelance writing, write my own stories and do work-for-hire, so it’s a lot of juggling.
https://www.hbook.com/?detailStory=whitney-and-me-confessions-of-a-work-for-hire-diva
All the best, Rebecca
If it’s a PB, do we submit the whole manuscript since it’s less than 500 words? I would also love to write chapter books. Do you have resources for us to research more publishers, etc?
Hey again, Ana! When I submitted a PB for that first work-for-hire pitch, they did ask for the full text. But check out the submission guidelines for each publisher or packager.
Rebecca
One more question, sorry! Are there opportunities to write historical biographies of famous people? Have you ever written one of those? Thanks again.
Jane, No problem! Questions are great! I think historical biographies of famous people would be the type of thing that would work in the work-for-hire market. They’d be great for libraries and schools. Kris Asselin, who’s also a WriteOnCon presenter, has written a number of books for both the trade and work-for-hire market. I believe her non-fiction books are all wfh and you can see a couple are biographies:
https://www.kristineasselin.com/my-non-fiction.html
All the best,
Rebecca
Are things like social media activity or marketing know-how things that a publisher would take into consideration when picking a work-for-hire writer?
Hi, Elza!
I don’t think WFH publishers are worried about the author marketing the book. I haven’t been asked to market my mysteries. I think since you’re paid up front and not royalties, that’s not really in the expectations.
All the best,
Rebecca
Typically, how long long does it take to get feedback once you put you contact publishers as a new writer? Is a good idea to contact several at once? Thanks!
Hey, Laurie,
I heard back on my submission to North Star/Jolly Fish relatively quickly, within a couple months. I’ve submitted packages to other work-for-hire publishers and not heard back at all. I think it depends on whether there’s a good fit with your writing/experience and the books they’re trying to create. As with everything, there’s a bit of talent and a bit of luck/being in the right place at the right time involved.
All the best,
Rebecca
What is a typical timeframe they may give you to finish a book?
Hey, Sandra,
The timeframes are set up front in the contract for the book. I had 2 deadlines with each book, one to provide the first chapter and outline (and bibliography for the nonfiction book), and one for completing the manuscript and turning it in. The MG mysteries were 2-3 months and the nonfiction teen book was 6-8 weeks. This did not include revision.
All the best,
Rebecca
I’ve heard from a few WFH writers that some companies won’t hire you again if you turn down a project. Is that true?
Hey, Carolyn!
I don’t know. I hope not! I didn’t feel a lot of pressure to accept the assignments. I spent a couple days thinking about the nonfiction one because I knew it would slow down my writing on my own WIP.
I guess my thought is this, that it might be easy to slip from someone’s mind if you hadn’t written for them in a while. Also, editors are people too and it can be hard to keep track of the multiple projects they’re juggling and all the potential authors.
For instance, when I wrote the first mystery, I found out the publisher was looking for writers from diverse backgrounds and suggested a couple of my critique partners. One decided to apply and when the publisher decided to do a second set of 4 books in the What Happened? series, I asked if they were going to include her. They hadn’t thought of her because she’d categorized herself/they’d categorized her as action or mystery, not humor and then they’d pulled their humor list of authors to ask people to pitch. (??) I knew she could write funny and mentioned that and she did end up being selected to write one of the books. I don’t think they were trying to be mean or exclude anyone, I think they’re just busy and things can get overlooked.
But, I don’t know for sure. Even after 3 books I think of myself as pretty new to this!
I hope that helps!
Best of luck with your writing!
Rebecca
I am so glad to see this topic covered this year! I’ve been looking for information on how to get into this. I’d found some information about freelancing for websites and such, but that’s not what I wanted to do. I want to write books.
Thanks so much for this! It was extremely helpful.
Oh, I’m glad this was helpful, Becka! Yes, it’s a topic that’s not talked about a ton. I hope the pages on further resources and on publishers and packagers gives you some direction on where to go for more info.
Sorry I’m late getting back to you.
Rebecca
I really hope that you will find a way that is comfortable for you to address the payment issue. I don’t think listeners are asking specifically how much you get paid, but just in general what might a person get paid for doing various types of books or assignments. And if you are not able or willing to answer that question, could you please point us in the direction of a resource that could answer that question? Women in particular are often not paid fairly because of systemic inequalities and sometimes their own reluctance to address the topic of money. I hope that we can be open enough as writers to equip women With information about the value of their work to make sure they are not being taken advantage of in any workplace, including publishing.
And thank you for your presentation, which overall was very helpful. I also appreciate you allowing pauses for thought — an excellent pedagogical practice! All the best to you in your writing journey.
Hi, Woodwardia,
Yes, this is a tough topic. Partly because it’s about money, which is a touchy issue, partly because it depends a lot on the piece and the publisher, and partly because writing, as a whole doesn’t pay well. Even traditionally published authors don’t make a ton of money unless they have a big following, and work-for-hire pays less than that. I suggested the work-for-hire diva article because it gives people a sense of the money:
” As a friend of mine who has done work for hire for other publishers said, if you’re efficient and “get in a groove,” you can make a living, or something close to it, with work-for-hire projects…”
You’re not going to get rich on work-for-hire and you need to be pretty disciplined with your research, writing and editing time to make it worthwhile on a $/hour basis.
I think that the reason to do it is to get paid for writing, to get credits for your bio and to get the experience working for an editor. With that said, I made more on a $ per word basis on the nonfiction project I wrote than on the fiction books. If you wanted to do school visits, you might be able to augment the income from writing a work-for-hire book.
I make more money and get more consistent work from freelance writing for businesses, but I only got there through focusing on topics that I have a distinctive knowledge about/background in. Lots of businesses are looking for website and marketing content but if they have the choice, they won’t pay a lot. You need a niche where you’re not competing with tons of people.
I hope that helps!
Rebecca
Work for hire pay rates vary a great deal. Packagers will usually not pay as well as working with a publisher directly (packagers are middle men and take a cut), but publishers also budget these tightly. Think about it like submitting a poem to a magazine. Some children’s mags pay as little as $5 (or not at all) while others may pay hundreds. (For wfh, I’ve heard of $200-$1000 per book for lower level readers.)This depends on how well known and funded the magazine is. Also, some companies go through agents to find their work for hire authors. Those authors are likely to earn more than those of us who aren’t agented. There are threads on this on the SCBWI Blueboard for anyone who wants more info.
I’ve now done over 15 books with my name on them, and I edit as a freelancer also. (My goal is to sell one of my own book projects.) But at least I know someone thinks I can write. I like work for hire because I get practice meeting deadlines and working with editors and a a little extra cash. I also only take topics I’d like to learn more about. This means I’m interested in the research. I’d love to do more fiction, so I’m listening to the workshop to see if I get ideas to further my career.
Thanks for doing this workshop, Rebecca.
Now that I’ve finished the workshop, adding some notes: Evelyn Christensen is no longer keeping all sections of her website up to date, so be sure to double check each publisher’s info.
On marketing: I had to ask for permission to list the books on my website because I own no rights to them even though my name is on them. I’ve done no other marketing for them. And these contracts often involve nondisclosure agreements, which means you can’t discuss them with anyone. I asked permission to share with my critique group while the manuscripts were in progress.
On editorial: I’ve had contracts that state the work will be edited without my approval but I can not be held liable for errors inserted during this process. This allows the publisher/packager to move more quickly.
On experience: list your day job. Do you work with kids? Are you a professional with expertise on non-fiction subjects? Do you write as part of your living?
And on payments: of course, a YA will pay more because it’s more work than a first grade reader.
Rebecca, I hear you on balancing your personal projects with the paid work. It’s a business decision. And I had no idea SCBWI’s The Book listed WFH publishers. I’ll be looking at those. Thanks for the article resources also.
Hey Debbie! Thanks for adding your knowledge here! This subject is so seldom talked about.
THE BOOK actually lists a bunch of traditionally publishers who use work-for-hire writers for some of their projects – so don’t look for a section, read down in the details about what they publish and submission guidelines.
All the best,
Rebecca